Don’t be afraid of change – an interview with Carolyn Munns

In the latest of our Property Leadership interviews, Philip Foster from Ocean Edge Executive Search speaks to Carolyn about her career journey to Lampton Services – a company wholly owned by The London Borough of Hounslow.

Carolyn, I’d like to kick off by asking how you first became involved in housing.

I started my career in housing almost 16 years ago, and like many others in housing I kind of fell into it. I was working as a sustainability consultant before I got a job as a climate change officer with Sentinel Housing, and then I progressed within the organisation over many years.

I started in the assets and property team and my role involved supporting the organisation to understand how to operate more sustainably and reduce its carbon footprint. I helped to embed sustainability into policies and procedures, and when planning larger scale developments programmes. It was a really good grounding in housing and ultimately led me in the direction of asset management and data.

Over the years Sentinel merged with other housing organisations and grew in size, and eventually became Vivid Homes with a sizeable stock of around 38,000 homes. It was great for me to go through that journey and to see the significant culture shifts over time.

And then after a long period of service at Vivid you moved to Lampton recently into a Director post.

Yes, I had been with Vivid for a significant period of time and had continuously progressed. There certainly wasn’t a time where I became complacent or lacked ambition, but I got to a point where I really wanted to do something different and work in a different environment. I feel incredibly grateful for my time at Vivid and looking back now I can see how disciplined the environment was around finance and compliance. And that set me up really well to get me to where I am now and the job ahead of me at Lampton.

Lampton is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hounslow Council so it’s an entirely different set up from Vivid. It’s a political environment with elected officials at the top. What interested me in the role here is that I could see that Lampton has a journey to go on. We’ve got some great people here with amazing potential, but the organisation hasn’t really been shouting about its success. I can see all the great things that teams are doing and I want to change that narrative and the relationship with the Council. There’s a lot of work to do but it’s exciting and I can really see the change that I can make.

So will you be bringing some of the systems and processes from your housing association experience across to Lampton?

RPs are focused on housing that is their business, whereas the Council’s scope is much broader, encompassing social services and much more.  So for Lampton as a wholly owned organisation to focus on housing in the same way that social landlords are, is far more difficult. But I am looking forward to bringing my experience and everything I have learnt in housing to my new role at Lampton. In terms of introducing ways of working that genuinely put the customer at the heart of the conversation and looking at how to improve performance. I’m grateful for everything I learnt at Vivid and will use this opportunity to apply this knowledge in a new environment.

You were very settled in your previous job and doing well but decided to embark on a new challenge and step out of your comfort zone.

Yes I was very happy and performing well, but the only story I had to tell was Vivid and my journey there. I knew I had to grow and flourish if I wanted to achieve my longer term aspirations to reach Executive and Director level. I had some really honest conversations with colleagues and the COO and everyone said they didn’t want me to go but understood why I felt the need to grow and develop my career. It was a tough decision to leave, but I felt overwhelmingly supported by colleagues. The opportunity with Lampton was appealing because it wasn’t just me stepping out of one RP into another. I wanted a different environment where I could learn a new set of skills.

I think that I was able to leave Vivid with my head held high because I’m really proud of the work I did there and I’ve left an amazing group of colleagues that I’m very respectful of, that I still speak to today, but I have no doubts that I made the right decision.

How did you use the interview process to ensure you and Lampton were a good match?

I think we sometimes forget that interviews are a two way process. Obviously it’s very important you focus on selling yourself. But I think it’s also crucial to dig deep, ask probing questions about any organisational issues or problems and settle any doubts, in order to ensure it is the right move and the right organisation for you. Unpick what you need to know, write questions down to take with you and don’t be afraid to ask about things like bad press or the current political environment. It shows you are genuinely interested and have spent time trying to understand them as an organisation.

I must say the recruitment process with Lampton was very thorough and by the point of me accepting the job I was 100% sure of my decision.

So now you’re in post how is the role going and what are you looking to achieve next?

I’ve been in post since the beginning of March and now I am looking to develop my team. I am recruiting two permanent Heads of Service under me to drive the organisation forward. So we are currently looking for a Head of Compliance & Planned Works which is a new role, and also a Head of Repairs & Voids. The current environment in housing means it’s really important that we’ve got a level of competence and understanding not only of the legality around compliance, but also the data side of it and how to manage it and that is the journey we need to go on here at Lampton.
For the Head of Repairs role I want to bring in someone who is excited about developing repairs and can take the organisation on a journey where we go from high performing to excellence.

We are definitely embarking on a journey. I know like many other organisations Lampton has gone through a lot of difficult change over the past few years and it hasn’t had the smoothest of journeys. The world of housing has become far more challenging and legislative changes have meant that we’ve got to be agile which means being able to change rapidly and smoothly.

My role is about helping Lampton adapt and I believe that if your workforce understand this need and why they need to change, they’re already part way there. I think all too often we haven’t spent enough time explaining why change is really important. We need to be an agile workforce so we can respond to the changing environment.

I am interested in finding out what you consider to be the major accomplishment in your career so far?

If I’m honest I’d have to say the things that have brought me the most joy and genuine excitement is when I’ve seen people that I’ve coached achieve something. That sense that you are getting the best out of people, that you have motivated them and helped them achieve their goals which means they are happy and content and motivated at work. I think is the most fantastic feeling ever.

I believe it’s really important to cultivate and grow your teams because actually you get the best out of them and they want to be there. But you also have to accept that  there’s nothing wrong with developing someone to such a level that they can no longer thrive with you, that they’ve got to move on and be a bright star somewhere else.

What do you see as the most significant challenges affecting the sector?

There are many, but if I focus on property specifically because it’s my area of expertise, then I think we’ve got a problem in social housing that is multifaceted.

We’ve got an ageing housing stock that’s getting more expensive and difficult to maintain, and we’ve got customers that are aware of the service they should be getting and we’re asking them how we’re performing. And then you add into that, all the new regulations. I think working in property and being successful requires a level of understanding around data and technology that just wasn’t there ten years ago.

I think it’s fair to say there are many current challenges and as a sector we’ve got some way to go, especially in terms of customer focus.

If we really put the customer at the centre then often other challenges fall into place. Eg, as a sector we spend a lot of time and effort trying to gain access to do gas servicing. But if we took the time to understand the customer base better, we would see that for many people the issue isn’t denying us access because they don’t want to let us in. It’s because of other reasons, eg they may have young families and are time poor and so would appreciate an evening appointment, or maybe they struggle to read, so a phone call would be better than a letter. It’s just one example of how better understanding our customers can help us improve, build trust and ultimately improve.

What advice would you give to somebody looking to climbing the career ladder in the housing world?

Some people work their way up the ladder by moving jobs every two to three years, but I took a different path by staying with the same organisation for a long time. I was happy and progressing but when I felt ready for a new challenge I sought advice from people whose opinion I trusted. I think it’s important to feel ready and excited about making a change. Do it when you’re feeling confident rather than waiting for a time when you no longer enjoy your job and feel miserable, as those feelings will come across in the interview and certainly won’t make you look appealing.

When I left Vivid people told me I was incredibly brave to leave after such a long time but for me it felt natural and the right time for me to move on. And now I’ve been at Lampton a few months I feel incredibly settled and am really enjoying it.

Just a final quick question, I’m always interested to ask my interviewees to recommend any books, podcasts or training that have helped in their career or personal development.

It’s not very work related but I really like to listen to a podcast called A Cautionary Tale which recounts stories from history and shows how we as a world tend to repeat errors of the past. It’s really interesting and I have used some of the examples to paint a picture when I have spoken at conferences or seminars.

Listen to the full interview on our Property Leadership podcast.

Ocean Edge Executive Search provides award-winning recruitment services to social housing, local authorities and the wider property sector. To find your next role, or to discuss your hiring needs please contact Philip Foster on philipfoster@oceanedge.biz or call 023 8000 1153.